How Sarah Williams 20X’d her Affiliate Sales and Won a $100,000 First Prize

In her first year promoting an affiliate offer, Sarah Williams made 9 sales. The next year, in the same promotion, she made 184…and won the $100,000 first prize. The crazy thing is…this was a last-minute promo…and she still won it! How’d she do it? Well, that’s what this episode is all about.

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Previous Episodes of The Affiliate Guy

How to Get Your Affiliates Fired Up Before a Promotion

What Kind of Affiliate Manager is Best: In-House or Outsourced?

What to Look for in an Affiliate Manager

Don’t Make These Killer Mistakes with Your Affiliate Program (Part 2)

Don’t Make These Killer Mistakes with Your Affiliate Program (Part 1)

Affiliate Marketing and Podcasts: How to Make Money, Get Affiliates, and Build a Brand Through Podcasting

How Sarah Williams 20X’d her Affiliate Sales and Won a $100,000 First Prize

In her first year promoting an affiliate offer, Sarah Williams made 9 sales. The next year, in the same affiliate promotion, she made 184 sales and won the $100,000 1st prize as an affiliate. The crazy thing is, this was a last minute promo and she still won it. So how’d she do it? Well, that’s what this episode is all about.

So I got to know Sarah Williams because she became one of the top affiliates for Stu McLaren a couple of years ago. And Stu was one of our clients, and we ran his launches for a while. And Sarah was one of those people that I got to know and just was like, this is somebody I’ve got to interview.

Even if she hadn’t gone from 9 sales to 184, if she hadn’t been the top affiliate, if she hadn’t won the whole affiliate contest and one of the biggest launches of the year, I mean, this is, Stu’s launches are over $5 million a year, and she’s one of the top affiliates, or the top affiliate. Even if that hadn’t been the case, I would still want to interview her because the things that she did, she converted close to 20%, actually, more than 20% of her leads into sales on a $2,000 course. How do you do something like that?

So I had to interview her, and I made this available a couple of years ago to our paid members, but I wanted to share it with the world because this is such an amazing story. We’re looking for some of these just amazing stories that could blow people away, people that could help not only affiliates, but affiliate managers, you know both sides. Like, if you’re an affiliate, listen to what Sarah talks about.

If you’re an affiliate manager, listen to this and teach your affiliates this. Now, as I said in the intro, the crazy thing about this, this was a last minute promo. She wasn’t sure that she even wanted to join the launch.

She’s glad that she did. She got not only 184 sales on a $2,000 product, it’s an $800 commission per sale. You can do the math real quick.

Then she got an extra $100,000 for being the top affiliate. I think she won a couple of other prizes. I think she won like $105,000 total in prizEs.

This is a big payDay. She made more in two weeks than most Americans make in about three years, all with affiliate marketing. And so she reveals in this interview the five key strategies that she used to close more than 20% of her leads on a $2,000 course.

Like I said, her crazy engagement strategy that she used, it’s one of my favorite ones. She created these hyperactive buyers. So I know you want to know how she did it.

I know you want to know how you can do it and how you can share this with your affiliates. So let’s jump right into my interview with Sarah Williams.

Matt: I’ve got another amazing guest, and let me just tell you this story. If you’ve ever wondered, how can I be, like, the top affiliate for any type of launch, okay, let alone one of the biggest Internet marketing launches of an entire calendar year, and how can I do that when maybe the year before I only had nine sales? How do you go from 9 to 184 sales? How do you 20 x your sales year over year in an affiliate competition?

Well, guys, that’s what you get to hear today, straight from Sarah Williams. I am so excited about this one. I got to be honest, y’all, I’ve been waiting to do this one for a while. Super excited to have her on. So, Sarah, welcome.

Sarah: Thank you. So good to be here.

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Matt: I am so thrilled because I want to take you back a little bit behind the scenes. I don’t know if I shared this with you or if Stu McLaren has shared this with you, but going back to January, February of this year, we’re three, four months before Stu’s big tribe launch, and we’re kind of talking about who’s going to be top five, top ten, but also who’s going to be like those sneaky ones that kind of, like, come out of nowhere into the top 20. Because I know as an affiliate manager, if I can take somebody who might have finished in like 23rd with, say, 34 sales and I can give them a little bit of help, I can get them to 50, 60 sales, and on a $2,000 course, that’s an additional $30 to $40,000 in revenue. You do that ten times, close to a half a million dollars. Right?

And Stu was like, look for Sarah Williams. And I’m just being honest, my reaction was like, dude, I looked at the sales from last year and she’s nowhere on there. I’m focused on the top 40. He’s like, watch out for now. Admittedly he was like, she’s going to win the thing, but she could sneak up there in the top five. And I’m like, all right, well, then I’ll do that. I’ll make sure that we give her some extra help.

Well, you proved him right to a certain extent, but you proved us both wrong by winning the whole dang thing. So I am so excited to talk about the day. So let’s talk about you real quick.

I mean, I want people to understand you and your business real quick. So tell us about that, because I think your business story in general is pretty freaking amazing. So tell us a little bit about that.

Sarah: So my business started out with a local brick and mortar retail store where I did personalized gifts for people. And that started many years ago. I’m going on year nine now.

And that quickly turned into a subscription box. After about four years into my retail business, I decided to start a subscription box. Had not yet come into tribe at that point, I grew that box to about 300 subscribers. And then it started to Plateau and kind of started to decline a little bit. And I got panicked a little bit.

And here’s just a little hint. Like, I had had no online business. It was all in person except my subscription box. And at that point, all my subscribers were local anyway. So they would come into my store, they would sign up online, but they were all local to me. And so I really needed to learn how to run an online business that was coming.

I knew if I needed to grow, I had to have people that lived outside of my town. And so I started looking into some online business coaching. And that’s where I found Stu McLaren just out in the world there. And through another coach that I had signed up for a monthly membership with, she was affiliating for tribe. And that’s how I came into.

So I joined tribe. My subscription box blows up, like just fast and furious. With one close of cart that I learned from tribe, I doubled my member, my subscription boxes, and that grew from 600 to now 3000 monthly box subscribers, which quickly grew to a seven figure subscription box business, just the box itself, not including all the other things in the shop that we sell.

And so that brought a lot of attention of people watching what I was doing. And I would get these DMs, Matt, that would say, like, can I pick your brain? Can I ask you about your packaging? Can I do this? And so it became this constant thing showing up in my inbox. And I decided to take on a couple of one on one people, charged them like, literally nothing.

Because I’m not a coach, I don’t teach people, I just do my thing. And that quickly turned into my new membership, which is called launcher Box where that very quickly scaled to another seven figure membership. And so I get to teach people how to start, launch and grow their own subscription box.

So I have these two great multimillion dollar businesses that I get to run every single day. And it all happened within a matter of a few years.

Matt: That’s amazing. So I have a question for you. Those boxes behind you.

Sarah: Yeah.

Matt: Are those some of your students boxes or are those yours?

Sarah: These are my students.

Matt: And representative of all your students different boxes that they have.

Sarah: Yeah. And there’s so many more that you can’t see. So once a month I do this monthly box opening where I take a dozen boxes, so members get to request a box opening from me. And there’s actually some, I don’t know if we can pan over here, but there’s some I just did that are sitting on my table. But I select twelve every single month.

They ship them to me and then I open them live for the very first time on camera with all my membership. So my thousands of members get to watch these particular box openings and I critique them and everybody gets to learn from these. And then I get to keep their boxes and they go on my wall of fame or I ship them back to them, whichever they prefer.

So that’s what you’re seeing behind me is it’s building and it goes very high and it’s down, but it’s been growing.

Matt: If I didn’t know you were in this niche, I would just think you were a slob.

Sarah: It looks messy. But they’re very neatly stacked subscription boxes behind me.

Matt: Yeah, I knew that. That’s why I wanted to get that out of the way before people are like, is she just really messy?

Sarah: I’m just a hoarder. That’s probably what they’re thinking.

Matt: No, those are her students. How cool is that? What a great membership where you also get a bunch of free stuff.

Sarah: Yeah, it’s really fun. It’s really fun to see their packaging, the experience that they’ve created for their subscriber. And then I get ideas from them too. I’m like, oh, this is awesome. I got to do this. So I get a lot of great ideas from the members as well. So it’s really fun.

Matt: That’s really cool. So I want to park there for just a split second because I think we know what a subscription box is. There’s some famous models out there, some well known ones. Birchbox is one. Of course I say famous. The only reason I know about it is because my wife, otherwise I would have no clue what that is, but I think most of us understand what it is. I mean, in a sense, kind of like Omaha steaks was like the original box for meat, ironically.

But tell us real quick, what is a subscription box to the average student, the average person that goes through your program, what are their subscription boxes and what would they be like in terms of price point and what would be in them? Maybe some of the cooler, obscure niches that you are kind of surprised to hear about that are Successful with those actually.

Sarah: We say the riches are in the niches every day because what we’ve seen inside our membership is that the niche specific boxes grow faster and higher than being a broad box. So if you’re just for a whole bunch of people, you’re not going to grow as fast. But we have like the guinea pig box. I love the guinea pig box story. It’s the gpigbox.com, but it is subscription box for guinea pigs and guinea pig owners. And so it comes with treats and snacks and a gift for the owner.

But it’s specifically for guinea pigs. And we watched her go in January of this year from zero subscribers to now she’s almost at 1000 subscribers in one year. And if you think about that in membership terms, right, because you’re talking memberships, but it’s just a product membership.

And when you have 1000 monthly payments hitting your bank account every single month, you’re building stability into your product based business, which is something we need desperately. We have a lot of capital tied up into our products if we know that we’re going to get paid on a regular basis every single month. It just helps our businesses grow, become stable, able to pay ourselves well and keep providing great boxes.

So there’s yarnable. I watched her go from about 300 members to 1400 subscribers in this past year. It is a hand dyed yarn subscription.

So she hand dyes all the yarn, she packs it in a cute little subscription box and her little yarn niche has just exploded in love with her box. We could talk about all these different industries. It’s so awesome.

Matt: That’s really cool. What was yours in?

Sarah: So I told you that my retail store was. I personalized gifts, we personalized things. So my box is called the monogram box and I still have it. So we personalize one item in every single box every month.

So we’d have your monogram on that. And if you’re not from the south like me, I’m from Texas, but we basically put our initials on everything. That’s just what we do in the.

Matt: So that’s the southern thing. I thought every normal person did.

Sarah: Well, it’s typically more prevalent in the south, but we have customers all over the United States and a couple in other countries. But we personalize something in every one of our box. So we have t shirts and bags and cups and all the fun girly things that you would find in my boutique. But it’s specialized in this box.

It’s exclusive. So what’s in the box is not in the store. So you’re kind of the VIP of my business by getting the box. And then your box is for you. As women, we don’t do for ourselves as much as we do for every other person in our life. And so when this box comes to your door, it has your initials on it. It is curated for you, and we just create a really fun experience.

Matt: That’s super cool. So you fast forward. You started your online subscription box. Things weren’t going as well as maybe you hoped. I’m guessing you were probably like, I was just talking with a client literally about an hour ago and brand new client, and she basically said, Matt, I’m at that crossroads where my two choices are go all in and take this thing to scale.

This thing or quit. I can imagine you might have been maybe somewhere in there, because…

Sarah: I don’t think I was there. I think I was at the point where this is either as good as it’s going to get with 300 subscribers, and I’m totally happy with that.

When I started it, my goal was 100 subscribers because 100 subscribers meant that I could pay the rent at my retail location every month and I could pay my one employee that I had. And so with 100 subscribers, I knew that my base expenses were covered every single month, whether I sold anything else in the store. And then everything else that I sold was profit.

Like, that was the gravy. That was the cherry on top. So it was like this sense of relief by having 100 subscribers that I didn’t have to worry about making sales because everything would be paid for. And then if I made more money, it was great. At 300 subscribers, I’m doing really well. I’m profitable.

I’m giving myself a paycheck regularly. I have multiple employees at this point, but I’m stuck there. And, you know, as an entrepreneur, we have this brain that tells us more, more more. Like, we got to keep going. I need to hit the next level. And I was kind of stuck and thought, okay, well, maybe this is as good as it gets.

I don’t know. And I was at the point where I didn’t know what I didn’t know. I kind of fell into this entrepreneurship stuff. I didn’t plan for this to be my road. I didn’t know a lot of things, and I was seeking out ways to learn. I love to learn.

So, okay, what don’t I know? What would either get me over this hump? What would get me out there? Because I’m stuck with my local audience. I need to get out into the world, but I’m not getting there. My Facebook ads aren’t performing.

Everybody locally loves me. They’re shopping every day. They’re buying the boxes. How come I can’t translate that into the online space the way I did in my local town? That’s where I was stuck.

Matt: Interesting. So you went out looking for something that would help you go to that next level. You found tribe through an affiliate promotion, which is super cool. You joined tribe. Obviously you had massive success from there that completely transformed your business. And then when did you decide, was it 2020, that you promoted tribe for the first time?

Sarah: Yes, 2020 was the first time I promoted tribe. I joined tribe in 2018, but again, I was a B to C business. I had consumers that just wanted fun, girly things.

I didn’t have an audience of people that were looking to take tribe. You know what I mean? So in 2019, the fall of 2019, I launched my founding member launch for launcher box, and I got 19 members.

And that kind of started this B to B business that I have now where I was teaching other entrepreneurs what I had done. And I had launched again that next year in 2020 in march, right before the tribe watch, I had launched again and I gained 100 members. So I was sitting at like 105 for my membership. And then here comes tribe, and I’m like, I don’t really know. I’ve got a little bit of an audience at this point.

Let me just put it out there and see if anyone’s interested. I know what tribe did for me, and I would shout that at the rooftop to anyone that would listen. And so I thought, I’ll just share my story and if anyone wants to join, great.

I have a link and I’ll get an affiliate commission and it’ll be great. And so that’s what I did. And I did a couple of lives, and I sent an email to my list and things like that, and I worked with another triber on a bonus so that we had a bonus, and so we did a collective bonus together.

And so she ended up getting like 20 something sign ups that I had my nine, and we did a bonus together, and it was great. And that’s how we did 2020.

Matt: I like that idea. So here’s the big question then. You had 105 members in 2020. How many members did you have in 2021?

Sarah: So by the time the tribulaunch came in 2021, I had 2100 members. So what happened in 2020 is my business completely exploded?

Matt: Let’s think what happened in 2020. Can you think of anything? But let’s be honest, though. We’ll come back to the affiliate side in a moment. Yeah. A pandemic helps. A pandemic is throwing gasoline on a fire.

Sarah: Matt, it does in a way that people were listening and people were seeing your content, but you have to put the gas there. Like, you can’t just assume that, okay, anything online is going to explode in 2020, but you have to be working it. So I went through, tried the first time as a subscription box owner.

Well, then in 19, I went through it again with the idea that I was going to launch a membership this time. And so I was putting all of those things back into play, into my new business. And I started with an SLO and I started building my list.

And I went from zero people on an email list to 17,000 people on an email list by the end of that year. So you can see that my email list was growing. I was doing full on launches like Stu teaches us to do.

I was showing up, going live, doing all the things for the launches, and I was gaining momentum. So in march, I added 100 members. In July I added 500 members.

In October of 2020, I started my little thing called the coaching week that’s now famous in tribe, and that’s when I added 1100 members during that launch. That propelled me into the new year. But I was growing my business all of 2020 by the things I had learned in tribe, all the things that I knew that I needed to do for a membership.

I created SLOs. I created my opt ins. I was running ads consistently. I was showing up. I was delivering content. I was serving before I asked for the sale.

All those things that we know how to do, I was just showing up nonstop and doing them. And the benefit of 2020 was people had more time to listen to that, people had more time to consume that. People were listening. People were showing up to those lives. People were coming to my workshop, us. And so that’s really what helped my business explode. And now I had this nice big pool of people ready to launch tribe 2021, too.

Matt: So that is obviously one of the things that made the difference. But still, to do 184 sales out of 2100 members is, I mean, heck, it’s doing nine sales out of 105 members is pretty amazing. Want to talk about those strategies? What are you doing? I mean, I’m just doing the quick math, nine percent, it might be eight and a half. I’m not sure.

I think the other thing that you have to consider is that the only thing people could buy from me was my membership, and it was $57. And now I got to show up and ask them to spend two grand on a course when the most amount of money they’ve spent with me is $57. So that was the challenge in my head that I had to overcome to figure out how to ask them to spend this kind of money.

Matt: I want to talk about the tactics and strategies. How’d you do that? What was the conversation that you were having in your head?

Sarah: That, look what it did for me. Look what that one, $800 did for me. I got my money back a million times. Right? So all I have to really communicate is that you’re investing in yourself, and it’s so easy to make your money back. When you put the practices into when you put them to work.

You got to do the work, though. You can’t just buy the program and then not do the work, but you got to do the work. And if it was possible for me, someone who was not an online entrepreneur, someone that was just this girl that had a little 600 square foot boutique in a small town and figured out a way to apply that to what I was good at, it could work for anyone, and I think that’s a big deal because they could maybe see themselves in me.

And I had a good story, and I still have a good story because I keep growing and I keep using the tribe tools to keep growing my business. So I think the number one thing is that I have a good story, and I was able to communicate my story to my audience.

Matt: That’s pretty cool. What was your goal going into the 2021 promo?

Sarah: Can I share a secret with you? And I don’t even think I’ve told Stu this, so he might listen to this and learn this for the first time. Breaking news, people. Breaking news.

It was a week before the tribe launch, and I was like, I’m not going to do the tribe launch. It was a week before. I was like, I’m exhausted. I cannot do another launch. I got too many things on my plate. I’m not going to do the tribe launch. And that was one week before April 22 or April 21, whatever day it was.

Matt: That 23rd, 22nd, 2021, though. Okay, so it was those seven days before that, and I was having a conversation with Heidi. Heidi and I are good friends. And she said, hey, you feel anything for tribe? And I’m like, yeah, I don’t think so. I got too much going on. I don’t think that I can do it. And if I can’t do it all in, I don’t want to half do it right.

And so I was like, I don’t think I’m going to do it. And she was like, okay. And so we talked through what she was going to do and we talked through her strategy and then what was happening was people were emailing me, hey, are you affiliating for tribe? Are you affiliated for tribe this year? Do you have a bonus? And I was like, no.

At first I was like, no. And then I was like, wait a minute. All these people are asking me, I don’t even have to sell it to them. They know my story.

Maybe I should affiliate for tribe. And I love to do and I’m part of his impact mastermind and so he’s getting geared up for the launch and he’s excited and now I’m like, oh, well, now I’m excited, too.

I got an affiliate. I’m just going to do a couple of quick things. It’s not going to be a big deal, but maybe I should affiliate for tribe. And so I started getting excited about, you know, how the launch is, matt. Like, it’s exciting. There’s a lot of energy around it. Stu brings a lot of energy. The tribers bring a lot of energy. And I thought, okay, let me map out a plan real quick.

So I got out my calendar. I thought, okay, we’ve got the videos. I’m going to have to drive people know because there was different places we had to send people, right? So there was all those things and I kind of mapped it out in my head, okay, this is where we need to send people and this is how I will launch it. I’ve been very successful at launches.

I know how to do a launch. So I just treated this as my own product launch. So I set up my launch in my brain. I didn’t run ads because it wasn’t in my brain to run an ad for someone else. I’d never done that before. So I was like, I’m not going to do that. And so I’m just going to go. I have this great pool of audience. I have this great pool of people that are perfect for this.

Let me just tell my story. Let me get them excited and let me go through the tribe launch with them. Like, we’ll hang out through the tribe launch, we’ll watch the videos together and I can kind of tell you what we did there, and I’ll follow up with them after each video lesson that the student like, okay, what’d you learn?

And here was the other thing that was hard for me. Tribe is not necessarily set up for product based businesses, so I knew I was going to have to filter some of the information so they could apply it to their product based businesses because it’s really for digital businesses, and so you’re able to apply it all. That’s how I came into tribe.

But you kind of have to think outside the box when Stu is talking. And so if you’re not open to that, I had to say, okay, when Stu says you’ve got to consume the content, that means you have to get them to consume those products in that box, because if they’re not using it, they’re going to cancel. So I would just regurgitate everything that Stu was teaching in those free workshops into product people language.

So now we would have conversations during those workshops. We had a texting group, so we were like, okay, what Stu said here, this is what it means in our product. I would regurgitate that. And so we had this group of people that was going through the launch together.

Matt: Love that. Okay, so I got three takeaways there, and I want to dive deep into two of them, even though you may have kind of gone into that third one. But we’ll say, number one, treat it as your own launch. I just did a podcast episode where I talk about, like, when you study those affiliates who vastly outperform their list size, their customers, whatever, they went all in.

And you said that earlier, you didn’t want to do this. You were going to go all in. And if all in had produced 100 sales. All in produced 100 sales. Absolutely. It was more about your experience with it and how you felt. And we found that, yeah, that was one of the biggest differences. Probably the biggest difference.

And it’s not a tactical thing. It’s more of just a mindset. Like, I’m going to sit down and do just what you did. I’m going to plan. The only thing is you’re being handed a calendar in your own launch. You get to choose the calendar. Oh, we’re going to do video. No, you don’t get to do that with this, with an affiliate thing. Like, he’s going live on this day whether you like it or not. But you sit down and you know, this is my thing. I’m going to plan this promotion just like I would my own launch.

Secondly, I want to talk about how you watch the videos together just from a purely tactical side. How did that work? Because Stu’s going live and he’s got his own platform. Were you just all logging in at the same time or what?

Sarah: We didn’t really do anything fancy. I know some people had it on Zoom and they were streaming it for the zoom room and stuff like that. We didn’t do anything like that.

We were watching it at the same time and we were chatting about what was happening in our text group.

Matt: Their own group basically.

Sarah: Yes.

Matt: What do you use for that?

Sarah: I use community.

Matt: Yeah, that’s what we use.

Sarah: And so what I had them do is I had them text me a keyword. It was like tribe or something like that. And so then they got put on that community inside there. And then I would broadcast, okay, Stu’s about to go live.

I’m here answering your questions. So I’m watching Stu on my computer laptop and I’m just answering text the whole time. And when Stu would say something that I knew that I needed to translate into product language I would say tip number two from Stu about this means this in our language.

And I would get replies, oh my gosh, that makes so much sense. And we would have conversations. So now I’m connecting with them. I’m connecting with them one on one because community is a two way text. They’re texting me back. It’s not a group text. I’m texting one on one with them. Even though I can broadcast those texts to everyone. Then I’m having personal conversations with people through every one of these videos.

And so I was just connecting with them on a personal level.

Matt: That sounds like a word that it’s kind of become a dirty word in the entrepreneurial world. At least for those 2 hours you were hustling.

Sarah: Hustling.

Matt: That’s not easy. I know because I haven’t done exactly what you’ve done. So just as a side note, totally stealing that strategy. That is brilliant. But I have done things like sent out questions via community and gotten 100 responses and now I feel like I’m compelled to respond to all of them.

And it is me. For anybody who’s on my text list, you know, it’s me. It’s not me on my team. And man, sometimes it’s like I’m on there for like an hour and a half straight just going back and forth. And by the time I finish the them have responded. The response yes. By the time I finished 40, 2-15 of those have responded. And it’s like, keep to going.

Sarah: And then what I would do, and I was it was like an hour, an hour and a half after sue was even done, I was still having these conversations, and I finally would send a broadcast. Okay, that’s a wrap for tonight. Meet me right back here in the text chat. Then it would be the next night.

I hope you got a lot out of tonight’s session from Stu because he was teaching great content. So I wanted them to walk away with having a little win. Like, okay, that makes sense.

If I can get them to have a little bit of win, they can start to see themselves in tribe. And so I was trying to get them to see have a little bit of win during those videos. So it propel them to know that they could have more wins if they joined tribe, too.

Matt: I love that. And then the other thing you mentioned was just filtering that info for your audience just like you were talking about. And Ram merch reminds me of a really good friend of mine her audience is like, none of them have email lists now, even though she teaches. Have an email list, have an email list, have an email list. None of them do, but they all have like 50,000 plus Instagram followers.

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And so she promoted, I cannot remember for the life of me, somebody a couple of years ago, I cannot remember who. And this person was like talking about basically doing promotions and email, like, send an email, send an email. And the whole time they did it.

Very similar, but theirs was a group thing. They did like, not Facebook group, but some sort of, I don’t remember how they did, but some sort of a chat room like chat role. She set up a page where she had her affiliate link to register for the workshop, and then blah, blah, blah, and then they had a chat role.

Just a total chat room, but just her people. So it didn’t get like, way out of hand. It was like a few hundred people. And she would just translate what that person was saying into Instagram lingo because her audience was all on Instagram. And I’m like…

Sarah: What would have happened if information is only for email? And I can’t visualize this to be like iGDMs or quick replies in my DMs. I’m shut down and this is not for me. And I’m moving on. So if you can translate how it is for your audience, wherever they’re at, like, whatever that means to them, then, like, okay, I get it. I can do that. And it’s a quick win for them.

Matt: And it turns what they’re teaching from tactical to principles, what Stu teaches. And this is true of any good teacher. It’s not. You do, A B C D it’s, here’s the principle behind it.